IN SEARCH OF IDENTITY: CONTEXTUAL QUESTIONS OF THE COMMUNITY AND CONCERNED ANSWERS AND VISION OF THE SHEPHERD

 This section includes responses of Dr. Geevarghese Mar Theodosius Episcopa to questions posed by the members of the Council of the Mar Thoma Church Diocese of North America and Europe (NA&E).  Mar Theodosius took charge as the Bishop of the Diocese of NA&E in January 2009.  This interview was held on April 18, 2009, after the first Diocesan Assembly meeting that Mar Theodosius presided.  All Council members were given the opportunity to submit written questions, which were consolidated to avoid repetitions and Ms. Betty Vattakunnel, Mr. Ashley George and Dr. Mathew T. Thomas presented the questions to Mar Theodosius.  Below are the questions (Q) and Mar Theodosius’ responses (R) that were audio-recorded and then transcribed to text.

 Q:      Thirumeni, how can the youth of this Diocese find their Christian identity as they struggle,  coexisting between Western and Eastern cultures?  How is the church addressing or adjusting these needs for change?

 R:      See, for a long time, we could easily speak about the East and the West, when we considered the world as a whole.  But these are the days where we speak about the global community where the divide between the East and the West are taken away.  At the same time I know that we are going through a transition where East is East and West is West, and therefore there are certain boundaries or territories people have set in their minds in their behavior, in their character, in their identity.  So to keep both identities at the same time will be a very difficult thing, as far as youth are concerned.  They can’t ignore it either, because they will live with their parents, they live with people of the community where they go for worship, where you can see people of the East and people of the West, but people of the East in majority.  And the youth that are coming up, they may be smaller in number, and therefore they will find it difficult to be very much with the Eastern community.  Trying to understand them is as difficult as to cope with them.  So even though they try their best to be in the West, coping up with the Eastern culture, they won’t be able to do full justice to saying that ‘my parents are from the East and therefore my identity is also East.’  They can’t do that.  They are born and brought up in the Western culture, so the air they breathe is Western, the school community, college community, the neighborhood community, everything is Western.  So, most of the days of their life are spent in the West and in the Western culture.  And therefore that which is dominant in the life of the youth will always be Western.  Their parents coming from the East, or relatives coming from the East, or the religious community coming from the East – they cannot ignore the Eastern culture, as well.  So maintaining the Western culture as the main culture that they want to embrace, they try to accommodate as far as possible to what is Eastern.  And this will remain for some time, but as the generations progress, the number from the East will be less, I believe, and therefore that which is Western will dominate.  But now, we are at a point where global culture is to be taken seriously, which means we’ll have to embrace plurality, understand other cultures, even when you say that you keep your identity.  You need to understand them.  Therefore, it is the question of disciplining your conduct, manner in which you deal with other people, and also accepting them as people of the same globe, where they are also living.  So that transition has to come, when the youth are speaking about having a tension between the West and the East.  They have to grow, and in growing, for some time they can hope for a Western identity to dominate, but soon, they’ll be challenged with the global identity.  So it’s better to understand that and grow as a global citizen. The second part of the question is regarding the Church. Here we need to remember that there was a time when our Church leaders advised the members here to go to the local churches for worship. Later the Church formed a diocese and recognized parishes in North America. There are also ordained ministers from this land and culture. These are positive signs that the Church is addressing the challenges of change.

 Q:      Some members of the Mar Thoma Church have left the congregation citing the unnecessary traditions and practices of the church, and feel that worship is empty.  What do you think is the biggest challenge for the second generation members, when they feel disconnected with the worship or traditions, and how do you think the Diocese can work towards making the connection?

 R:      In my perspective, when people say that some members of the Mar Thoma Church are leaving the congregation, saying that the traditions and practices are quite unnecessary, there is a need to look at the traditions and practices. Are they challenging the youth?  The answer for me would be they are not challenging them.  And as a result, the traditions and practices become meaningless as far as they are concerned, because they are not challenged.  Worship is a common nature for humans. As a Church we have corporate worship. To be a member of the Church means to be a part of a community that worships together. We have thus parishes in various localities. The layperson education and development (LEAD) program in the Diocese is helping members to understand the faith, traditions, and practices of the Church. All these are subject to change as these are living realities. We look for progressive transformation.  The basic need is to get exposed to it and try to understand what are the traditions and practices; at least hear the experiences of the people for whom these are meaningful – people who say that these are relevant – they should be patient enough to listen to them and understand ‘why is it relevant for them and why is it not relevant for the moderns.’  That way of encountering the issue will be better than simply saying that ‘we are leaving the church because of that.’  There are several other reasons why people are leaving the church. So I don’t fully attribute to the statement that they are leaving the church because they think that the traditions and practices of the Church are unnecessary.  This is a value statement, in the sense, for some they think it is unnecessary, others think it is necessary.  There remains a tension between the two, in perception, but the question of leaving is entirely a different matter, I would say.

 Q:      How do you explain the importance of the use of traditions and practices in the Mar Thoma Church, which is different from many Western churches?  How and why are the Mar Thoma practices and traditions significant to worship?

 R:      When you speak about the traditions and practices, and also refer to it as they remain significant for a worshipping community, we need to look at the whole question as to how these traditions are formed.  Traditions are formed because you repeat the same thing again and again and again.  So, repeated use of the practices becomes the tradition.   We can have modification of traditions in the same way, but not all of a sudden. If you want to change the tradition, then it will take some time for you to change it, and that will become a practice later.   A community has to own it for a number of years, then that remains meaningful and significant in the lives of the people for generations.  Then those practices will become traditions.  And then, all these are found in a particular culture; and that’s why there is a difference between the Eastern culture and the Western culture.  Even when you look into the philosophical field, you can say that there’s a Western philosophy and there’s an Eastern philosophy and the two are entirely different.  So it depends on the culture of the people, the way in which they perceive certain things, the way they answer ultimate questions, and how they respond to them.  These will vary according to the culture, the habits, conduct, of the particular community.  In the Western culture you have more or less a mono-culture, whereas in the Eastern culture, you always have pluralism.  Looking into the religions of Asia, you realize that you have so many religions over there, whereas in the West, by and large you have one religion.  It’s only recently that people started studying about other religions and showing some interest in it. The Mar Thoma community with its Eastern liturgy is now a Diaspora community. It is the nature of this Church to group together wherever the people have gone for employment and immigration for common community worship in the language and liturgy they are familiar with. It is with the emergence of the first generation that the questions of reforming the traditions and practices have come to the lime light. We cannot ignore this.

 Q:      Should our worship be altered to meet the needs of society?  And how much can the worship be altered before it compromises the basic theological understanding and teachings of worship?

 R:      See, change is always necessary. When you say that people change, history changes, and culture changes, so you cannot contain the faith and practices of the church or worship practices without any change.  You know in the Mar Thoma Church, even if you look only into the Malayalam culture where you have the Malayalam songs and Malayalam liturgy – these are revised from time to time, so that it will be more meaningful to the people journeying through history.  When you take it into the multi-national set-up, wherever that liturgy is used, you’ll have to look into the whole liturgy to find out whether these are the vocabularies that we need here.  Are they giving meaning to the community, and if so, what is the meaning that they are giving?  Can we alter it so that the original meaning is not lost?  Things like that.  So, change is always necessary even for the liturgy or worship practices, or even the lifestyle of the Christian community as a whole.  You cannot escape change.    When you speak about change,   something is going out and something is coming in.  That’s where you have to attend.  So, what is coming in should be more meaningful than the one that exists.  At the same time, the core element or core meaning of the whole thing shouldn’t be lost. There is a need I find for a ‘theoretical study’ of the liturgy. This is significant for the present members of an ancient Church. Once you learn to write a liturgy, you will understand the importance of the form of liturgy. It is not a question of shopping around to see what suites our taste, but to have a liturgy that is theoretically and Biblically sound and where our life and work are integrated properly.

 Q:      Do you think that seminary education that is provided in India is educating our future priests to adequately meet the needs of the church members in the Western society?  For example, techniques on preaching, pastoral counseling techniques, etc.  If not, what steps can or is the church making to bridge the gap?  Is it possible to facilitate the process of training by allowing the youngsters from here to get some of the training here, at least in some of the aspects similar to those mentioned above?

 R:      Coming to the latter part of the question, I would say yes, because when the church looks at the theological training that a candidate would have in India or North America, we look into the whole curriculum meant for the theological training and what are the things that he has received through the education in a particular college.  That is one aspect of it.  So if there are papers to be covered, then those papers are to be supplemented.  So educating the youth in the Western culture and the Eastern culture, both are possible for theological training.  But then, there is also a question of living in a community as part of seminary education.  It’s not simply academic training that is given; it is also molding a person and forming a lifestyle.  For that, you need a particular community in which they live.  I know that there are Orthodox seminaries in America, but then the students are staying as a community within the seminary as they complete the courses.  So, both these are to be taken into consideration when they speak about theological education to the students.  And as far as our community is concerned – and that is the first part of the question – now we have a mixture of both Indian people over here in America and also people born and brought up in America.  There are people who landed yesterday, and there are people who have grandchildren over here as American citizens.  To bridge these two will be a task of an ordained minister of the Mar Thoma Church now, even if that person is posted in America.  Take any parish, for that matter, a person who is speaking only English will not be successful in a parish where Malayalees are also found.   I would say that in spite of I being here as the third resident Bishop, within the last fourteen years, we were not able to  have in all parishes in America  at least three English services a month.  If we are successful in saying that at least two Sundays are set for English services and two for Malayalam, I would say yes, we are doing better as an American Diocese.  But there are places where even if you take the English service you will be asked to give a Malayalam sermon, and vice versa.    So the language problem still exists as far as the community is concerned, and therefore an ordained minister, whether he is born in India or in America will have to deal with both the languages now. Hence the significance of training to speak Malayalam. For a minister in North America, training to have techniques in preaching, pastoral counseling and the like is better in schools and universities here. The Mar Thoma Church has a number of ministers who had higher studies in North America. This is going on.

 Q:      Some youth opt to go to seminary schools in the U.S. rather than in India through the Mar Thoma Church.  Can these members be used in the Diocese?  If so, how do you think the Diocese can use those members in the ministry of the church?  Can this be a good opportunity for bridging the difficulties between cultural differences?

 R:      I have explained some of these things through my answers I have given above, earlier.  The students going for seminary education, they can have training in U.S. provided the Church permits them.  And then, we’ll have to look into what are the courses they have taken during their academic course over here, and also see whether they had any community living as part of the training process.  If something is lacking, that is to be given to them, then only they will be selected to the ordained ministry.  We can use them even without ordination like you know student chaplains and counselors.  But then, if the youth chaplains, those who are giving lead to the members of the community and also molding the character and conduct of the teenagers and young couples, through their ministry if they are not able to understand the basic ethos of the church, the practices of the church, traditions of the church, faith and practices, then they fail in the ministry of being youth chaplains.  So we’ll have to be very cautious in selecting people who are trained here and then hoping to do some sort of ministry in the Diocese.  As far as the Mar Thoma Church is concerned, we don’t ordain people for any particular Diocese.  We have ordained people only for the entire church.  So they can be posted anywhere in the globe.  In the same way bishops are also.  Only the Metropolitan more or less remains at the same Diocese, otherwise all are expected to go on transfer to one place or the other.  So if there is thinking that people born and brought up in America after theological education they’ll be posted only in North America, it may be a false thinking. On a global world, cultural differences are a blessing. Knowing them will be a privilege.

 Q:      American societies’ distorted view of sexuality, self-worth, and relationships are affecting our members’ outlook on Christian life.  How can this struggle between American identity and Christian identity be dealt with?  And what steps can the church make, other than preaching, to focus in on the basic foundations of family life and to refocus what Christ has taught when it comes to these topics?

R:       See, counseling, for that matter, is important where we deal with individuals.  Group counseling is also possible; counseling to families are also possible, so we deal with individuals, families, and the like, to see what is necessary in their lives for their transformation.  But then basically they are the people to understand the need and then commit their lives and grow according to what is expected of them.  To say that Americans’ society is distorted or Indian society is okay, I’m not a competent person to do that, because these are relative terms.    But, through history, one can say that those things which the American community thought as very noble and ideal at one time are discovered later that at least some are wrong.  And therefore, you can see change and transformation even taking place within the American community from what once was good.  We consider the Bible as the Word of God that shows us the way of life. It gives us values that shape our outlook, what we need in Christian identity. American identity needs transformation based on Christian values. We need more study and reflection on that Holy Bible and personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Jesus said, ‘I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life’.

 Q:      Being from a reformed church tradition, what reformations must the Mar Thoma Church undergo in the existing practices to effectively minister to congregations in our Diocese?

 R:      Any church has to grow, which means in the process of growing you undergo transition.  And speaking about reformed church tradition, if the church is a reformed church, the process of reformation continues.  So it is not an entity where you can say it is done centuries back and therefore what we have now is better and best.  You go through a process of reforming yourself because there are lots of challenges and problems which you confront daily as you grow to be a church or a religious community.  And therefore as the change comes in, you decide to have a particular way of life, and if that is theologically and biblically sound that becomes the reformation of the church.

 Q:      As a follow-up to the previous question - America now has a Black president.  America has become a lot more multi-racial and multi-ethnic nation since the arrival of the first group of Mar Thomites in this country.  How would you explain that the Mar Thoma Church has experienced no change or any change in its membership and its outreach in spite of all the changes going on around it?  Have we just grown the old fashioned way, by means of migrants from Kerala?  Do you see this as good or bad?  Are we not ready and willing to embrace multicultural and multi-ethnic set-ups in this country?

 R:      The first part of the question is dealing with an African-American becoming a president.  Even the present generation, including the community of the new President, thought that the change would take place only after some more years, but the change has come.  That means the entire American community was looking for a change and that change was necessary.  It is true that the struggle of embracing other races was there in the history of America, and that has been going on.   There emerged now a leader who is very efficient and who is competent and who could also attract the people by his oration and his perspective on various aspects of American culture.  So that has brought change all  of a sudden, the American people as a whole, in the sense of majority  voting for him   and now the American community as a whole is looking up to the President to see how he will bring in transformation.  Now coming to the church, we need to understand that the Mar Thoma Church has its roots more in Kerala, which is very secluded on the one side by the Arabian Sea and on the Eastern side by the Ghats.   We were more or less secluded geographically even from the rest of the country and therefore, though there was Christianity in Kerala from first century, the Gospel couldn’t go out of Kerala to other states for a number of centuries.  Even the people who became Christians in the Assam belt on the North-Eastern frontier, because the Baptist Church brought in the Gospel to them, they are asking the same questions to the people in Kerala: “Why is it that you didn’t come out of your shell to preach the Gospel to us, when you remained there as Christians from the first century?”  This explains partly why we are more or less an exclusive community.  This nature is very much in our blood and this is more evident when we understand that even marriages are not taking place outside the Syrian community.  Had that taken place, taking the Tamil community, or the Kannada community, or the Telugu community, which are on the neighboring states, there would have been a more inclusive nature to the community.   And when they migrated, they migrated with all these exclusive attitudes to wherever places they went and that is true also about the migrant community here in America.  That is not an excuse for a church to realize that the church is to be a welcoming church, to be an open church, and an inclusive church.  The Gospel is very clear and sharp in saying that racial discrimination shouldn’t be there.  So if the younger generations are embracing people from other races, it is a challenge to the church as a whole to open itself to embrace people from other races.  . You can be a part of the global community only if you open up, cross the boundaries, and then say that the Kingdom of God doesn’t have walls.

 Q:      Thirumeni, you have visited the Mexico mission field.  What is your vision for the future of the Mexico Mission, including the role of the Mar Thoma ministry there in Mexico?

 R:      The first thing I want to say is that the people in Mexico speak Spanish, which is not the regular language of the people here in America.  But there is hope because the younger generation, they study some Spanish language in the schools or universities and therefore they will be able to understand the people by their language and to some extent culture.  There is also an economic divide between the people in Mexico and the people in America.  People in America are rich; the people in Mexico are poor.  And then the community among whom we are ministering - that’s mainly a community of fisher-folks.  When I say fisher folk, their livelihood is from the sea, so they live in uncertainties, like if they go for fishing they are not sure whether they’ll catch something which will fetch money for their living, not only for them, but also for their dear ones.  And there can be lots of hurricanes and lots of natural calamities.  Their dwelling places are near the seashore, so they live in lots of uncertainties, fears, and anxieties.  Whereas, life in America is relatively very much safe and secure.   All these things should remain as challenges because the church is a sent-out community.  The thrust is, whether you can incarnate in their life situations when you say that there is a mission in Mexico.  The way in which you answer the question of incarnation will determine how effective your mission is in Mexico.

 Q:      What is your opinion on starting local missions in Canada, just like the mission fields in Mexico as well as different places in the United States?

 R:      Mission belongs to God and God is the God of the whole created order.  And God has revealed that mission is through His Son, Jesus Christ, and is made more explicit now through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  And for God, anywhere in the inhabited world, is a mission field, because Jesus Christ came down to redeem and restore the whole creation.  So mission is relevant anywhere on the inhabited earth.  And the question is specifically about Canada; I would say yes, Canada is also a place for mission.

 Q:      You have now been here for about three months.  As you continue, we are sure that your views are going to change and you’re going to learn more new things and accept newer challenges.  But within these first three months, what have you seen as the most important challenge facing us as a community?

 R:      I may have to give priority to what I have in my mind. I have lots of concerns even within the three months of time I spent over here.  When I landed here I said the challenge before the church, the Mar Thoma Church, is the challenge to become a global church.  That still remains within me.  And particularly, with the North American Diocese, I would say that we need to encourage the leadership of the younger generation so that they will take up responsibilities and carry it out.  For that they need the support of the senior members, they need the support of the church hierarchy.  These two would be the two main things.  I am also encouraging the worshipping community to engage more effectively in their ‘neighborhood ministry’; to reach out to the people in the neighborhood with genuine love, care, and concern.

 Q:      There are a lot of our people who have now come here several years ago, thirty years ago, or so, and they’ve worked and they’re almost near the point of retirement.  Do you envision any specific role that they can play in helping our church grow?

 R:      Yes, I would say, because of the long experience they have and the varieties of life situations through which they went through.  But then the main question is, are you willing to give your experience and the lessons that you have learned to the community so that the community will be reformed and the new generations will reap the results of it.  To be more specific, our community is a consumerist community, and the question of giving is very minimal.  I am not speaking on economic terms alone; I am speaking about life as well.  See, there is a concern that we don’t have nursing homes, rehabilitation homes to take care of our aged people.  This is mainly because the people are not willing for servant ministry.  They may do it for the money part of it, but not to take care of the people with love.  So even though we speak highly about love and care, I have a question, how much are we willing to incarnate in situations where you need to spend your life more than your money.  Money will come, but then who will be there to look after people, nurse them?

 Q:     Anything else that you would like to leave with the community as we conclude this session?

 R:      We don’t have to conclude here, we can go on as we live together in this Diocese, so let’s look forward to newer opportunities where we can have encounters.  Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.